Lithium Batteries

[Lord Humongous]

Just curious if anybody has any experience with lithium batteries? There is big initial cost but supposedly 1 lithium has 2 to 3 times the capacity of an equivalent AGM and a fraction of the weight.

Original link: https://youtu.be/PCBhbezGPJc


I'm thinking about going this route with a trailer I'm building but seems too good to be true? Will one 30lb battery and a couple 100 watt solar panels be all I need?

 

[GrandmasKid]

I'm considering lithium for a starter battery even though they cost three time more than lead-acid. They last about three times as long, weigh half as much, and this one has a great jump start feature that will never leave you stranded even if you leave the lights on. Pretty cool!

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rw_qstFdE&t=1085s

 

[bonifacio]

I'd have to know for sure it meets up to it's claims.

Costs 3-4 x more.
Last 3-5 x longer.

I guess lithium capacity would be good if you're running things off it without having the vehicle running.

AGM is more weather tolerant. So depending on where you live, it may be good to stick with AGM in extreme-ish weather. Hot or cold.

More consistent discharge output. Nice to have full power all the way through it's life.
Where for some careless people it could be a bad thing at the end of life. You'll notice regular batteries as they are dying. Lithium would be good, then just dead.

Don't think I've ever bought a battery. But when I was looking at batteries they were what I thought was expensive.

So when it comes to cost, a cheaper battery would be less in the long run. If you get a decent battery, it comes out to about the same cost.

I'm just not sure if it would be worth the initial cost. Just haven't seen an actual need.

If they were really that great, how come dual battery setups don't just use lithium, specifically for the size, weight and power.

 

[jeepnik]

For a battery that will be charged and discharged (almost completely) frequently Lithium is the way to go. For just starting a good old lead acid battery will work fine for a lot less. Since most batteries last about 5 years you need to ask youself (assuming the litium battery will last 15 years) will you still have the vehicle in 15 years.

 

[StormRnr]

I don't know that any lithium batteries are recommended for vehicle starting or under-hood placement. They also don't have standard terminals or sizing for starter applications.

 

[Tomahawk Dog]

My experiance with many types of them,...
The lithium batteries we have and use for work and play like to be charged fully then used till they are at least 90% discharged.
Then recharge them fully.
They will last longer and will not develop a "memory" that will shorten lifespan. they are not as bad as NiCad in the memory department, but it matters.

All my lithium batteries work just as well at 25% as they do at 90%, thus the no need to charge early reasoning works for longevity.

Used in EV vehicles as that is the best burn time to recharge application.
If you recharge your EV early in draw down charge phase it can shorten the battery life...... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

insert EV owner's manual "recommendations" here<<

Lithium batteries will not operate/survive in a vehicle that uses the alternator 70-95% of the time to supply energy being used.
Maybe in a trolling motor, maybe at a camp site,.... the main designed use is to discharge then recharge. This is not how a typical vehicle operates.

 

[Bender]

A lithium battery wouldn’t be my choice for an automotive application. High cost and charge memory are the worst negatives. Can’t really think of anything it would do better in an automotive application.

 

[Tommy Taco]

10 years in my Honda Accord and 10 years in my Honda VTX1800C motorcycle. I was an early adopter of lithium 15 years ago.
You have to manage them differently in an alternator charge environment. I build all my own packs for what I need them to do.
Just to give you an idea… 15 years ago…..
Full suspension mountain bike. 133v dc lithium and 50 mph. I was the first or a very early adopter of high voltage DC lithium propulsion. With the right charging circuit, you could disable the alternator and run the vehicle off of the lithium battery. Watch the amp hours used then turn the alternator back on. Might save some mpgs.
My latest fat bike build is 84v and 44mph.
160 mile range at 20mph and 40-60 miles full speed. Panasonic 21700 cells and I spot weld them myself using a copper nickel sandwich technique. And yes, I’m probably the first to adopt using copper bus bars. 4 times less resistance than nickel alone.
I guess I’ll have to design a circuit for alternator shut off to see if MPG’s increase. My other two vehicles I just run them with resistor bleed circuits. You cannot use advanced BMS in alternator situation unless specifically designed for that use.

 

[Sunsetsearider]

You use a DC-DC charger.

 

[Tomahawk Dog]

This is what starts fires.
Amazon replacement chargers have burned many homes down.
AND
Self-made electrical engineers have done even more damage.

Stay within your lane because these "batteries" are not made as well as you think anymore.
I say this because I am a Fire Marshal and have worked fires since 1980.
Just my opinion of course.