Battery Recommendations

[Sunsetsearider]

I'm interested in seeing it. All I've found is anecdata on forums.

-M

Call up a tech at any battery manufacturer or talk to someone extremely knowledgeable, like someone in the marine industry who has been intimately involved with AGMs for decades.

AGMs need to be fully charged. Under continuous partial state of charge operation, AGM batteries perform noticeably worse than a less costly flooded battery. Why pay a premium for less functionality?

 

[StormRnr]

Call up a tech at any battery manufacturer or talk to someone extremely knowledgeable, like someone in the marine industry who has been intimately involved with AGMs for decades.

AGMs need to be fully charged. Under continuous partial state of charge operation, AGM batteries perform noticeably worse than a less costly flooded battery. Why pay a premium for less functionality?

I still contend that those experts are talking about deep cycle batteries that are seeing load when they're not under charge. And they would also probably tell you that float charging at absorption voltage is going to be damaging. My point is that all AGM, FLA, Li-ION LiFePO4 batteries are being topped up to 100% at a lower voltage when charging from a depleted state on a proper charger, which an alternator is not.

-M

 

[Sunsetsearider]

I still contend that those experts are talking about deep cycle batteries that are seeing load when they're not under charge. And they would also probably tell you that float charging at absorption voltage is going to be damaging. My point is that all AGM, FLA, Li-ION LiFePO4 batteries are being topped up to 100% at a lower voltage when charging from a depleted state on a proper charger, which an alternator is not.

Nope. AGM and Lifepo4 need a higher voltage than lead acid and what the Tacoma puts out. Why would you buy an AGM or a lifepo4 battery if you weren't going to draw it down without a charge? Only fools refuse to seek the advice of people that know more than them. People have done this for entire careers, every frickin day. It's one thing to make assumptions for your own decisions, but please stop advising others what to do.

 

[Butch]

For two years I have had an X2 and keep it on a smart charger at home. No problems so far.

 

[Sunsetsearider]

For two years I have had an X2 and keep it on a smart charger at home. No problems so far.

Yep, that's one way to give it the voltage it needs.

 

[StormRnr]

Double post, sorry.

 

[StormRnr]

Nope. AGM and Lifepo4 need a higher voltage than lead acid and what the Tacoma puts out. Why would you buy an AGM or a lifepo4 battery if you weren't going to draw it down without a charge? Only fools refuse to seek the advice of people that know more than them. People have done this for entire careers, every frickin day. It's one thing to make assumptions for your own decisions, but please stop advising others what to do.

1) You're talking about a different charging cycle than a car is designed to put out. Float voltage for an optima battery is 13.2 - 13.8
2) Chemistry is different than load capability. AGMs come in deep cycle for loads when not on charge, and starter which will die an early death if you run them down when the engine is off whether it's AGM or not.
3) Ouch.
4) I'm just going off the manufacturer's recommendations and the advice of the experts I have access to. Stop telling people to overcharge their batteries. (edit: on further review, Optima specifies up to 15v for alternator charging so charging at 14.x shouldn't damage the battery.)

-M

 

[StormRnr]

Here are some references:

Optima Batteries: Support - Battery Care - Maintenance and Storage (https://uk.optimabatteries.com/en-gb/support/battery-care/maintenance-and-storage/)

Float Charge​

13.2 to 13.8 volts, 1 amp maximum current

Rapid Recharge (Constant Voltage Charger)​

Maximum voltage 15.6 volts. No current limit as long as temperature remains below 50°C. Charge until current drops below 1 amp.

Federal Batteries: Charging an Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) Battery | Federal Batteries | Leading Battery Brands | The Best Battery Solutions (https://federalbatteries.com.au/news/charging-absorbed-glass-mat-agm-battery)

• Alternators are NOT chargers
• Do not rely on the vehicle alternator to do the work of a charger
• An alternator is meant to maintain a vehicle battery, not charge it

The difference between Starter and Deep Cycle Batteries: What is the difference between starter batteries and deep cycle batteries? (https://dakotalithium.com/2019/09/13/what-is-the-difference-between-starter-batteries-and-deep-cycle-batteries/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAorKfBhC0ARIsAHDzsltWi2wVqK2sZa5YDyFjZPYsSmRLidR45XCD398wWbFdYnxTMZetr-UaAnq3EALw_wcB)

A starter battery, also called a car battery, is designed to provide a large burst of current for a short period of time. This surge of current turns the engine over during the starting process then the alternator takes over. The burst of energy only discharges the battery 1- 3% then is topped off by the alternator. Under normal use your car battery may go through its entire life without ever being drained more than 20 percent of its total capacity.

Some AGM batteries use the IUU charging curve: IUoU battery charging - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUoU_battery_charging)

But all batteries have a charging curve with varying voltages based on the state of charge and the battery chemistry. Float stage is the final stage and is the lowest voltage. Car batteries shouldn't get out of float stage, and if they do you need a charger and the alternator isn't going to do that.

I'm not an expert. I'm really trying to find the right answer and so far "get some rando you met on the internet to reprogram your truck to dump a higher voltage into the battery" is a solution I can only find on Tacoma forums.

-M

 

[GrandmasKid]

Still considering replacing my 24F Clarios stock battery I ran across people talking about "registering" a new battery upon installation. Please view the YouTube link and let me know what you think. Do you think this might help to have our vehicles handle AGM batteries better?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxOK_DczRGg

 

[GrandmasKid]

I've gotten way more longevity out of my AGMs after changing my alternator settings with VF Tuner.

Are you worried about using VF Tuner voiding factory warranties?

 

[Victory4x4]

Are you worried about using VF Tuner voiding factory warranties?

I am unsure if they have the tools to detect that the truck is tuned or not. Either way, I'm not worried about it, as they will find some other reason to deny a warranty with a modified truck in my experience. Like the supercharger I'm about to install

 

[Butch]

Are you worried about using VF Tuner voiding factory warranties?

I remember when I bought my truck and the dealership was pushing the extended warranty. I said, “In three months I will have installed about seventeen things that will void any warranty you are trying to sell me.”

 

[Sunsetsearider]

Here are some references:

Optima Batteries: Support - Battery Care - Maintenance and Storage (https://uk.optimabatteries.com/en-gb/support/battery-care/maintenance-and-storage/)


Federal Batteries: Charging an Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) Battery | Federal Batteries | Leading Battery Brands | The Best Battery Solutions (https://federalbatteries.com.au/news/charging-absorbed-glass-mat-agm-battery)



The difference between Starter and Deep Cycle Batteries: What is the difference between starter batteries and deep cycle batteries? (https://dakotalithium.com/2019/09/13/what-is-the-difference-between-starter-batteries-and-deep-cycle-batteries/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAorKfBhC0ARIsAHDzsltWi2wVqK2sZa5YDyFjZPYsSmRLidR45XCD398wWbFdYnxTMZetr-UaAnq3EALw_wcB)



Some AGM batteries use the IUU charging curve: IUoU battery charging - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUoU_battery_charging)

But all batteries have a charging curve with varying voltages based on the state of charge and the battery chemistry. Float stage is the final stage and is the lowest voltage. Car batteries shouldn't get out of float stage, and if they do you need a charger and the alternator isn't going to do that.

I'm not an expert. I'm really trying to find the right answer and so far "get some rando you met on the internet to reprogram your truck to dump a higher voltage into the battery" is a solution I can only find on Tacoma forums.

-M

I did the OV tuning myself and the result was approved by one of the top AGM battery experts in the west coast boating world. Plenty of people have spent a lifetime with AGMs and had it figured out decades ago. I've spent a lifetime listening to them as a business owner who maintains and purchases battery systems for clients. You are the one scouring the internet for random answers. Why haven't you looked up tech and asked them about your assumptions?

 

[StormRnr]

I did the OV tuning myself and the result was approved by one of the top AGM battery experts in the west coast boating world. Plenty of people have spent a lifetime with AGMs and had it figured out decades ago. I've spent a lifetime listening to them as a business owner who maintains and purchases battery systems for clients. You are the one scouring the internet for random answers. Why haven't you looked up tech and asked them about your assumptions?

Alright. I'm out.