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Detailing The Ultimate "Ask A Detailer" Thread

nickyreno

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So I'm a professional detailer in the Reno/Tahoe area and I wanted to get something like this out there to mitigate a lot of the confusion and misinformation I see when it comes to maintaining our trucks. I am IDA certified and skills validated. I've got skin in the game and have trained with a few of the biggest names in the industry to include Todd Cooperider and Mike Phillips. I specialize in ceramic coatings and I am a certified installer for Feynlab coating products. So hopefully at the very least I can shed light on a lot of the misconceptions in the industry regarding ceramic products. The world of detailing is immensely vast and I am merely scratching the surface here, but below's a few quick tips and generally useful information to start. Feel free to ask me anything you might have questions with! I'm sure there are others on tacoma3g that can bring some great info as well.

Quick Tips:
  • Improper washing and drying is the #1 cause of swirl marks.
  • All vehicles could benefit from an annual chemical decontamination.
  • I don't care what your detailer told you, clay bars will mare your paint.
  • Automatic car washes = bad. Proper hand washing = good.
  • When doing PPF, never opt for a partial panel. Always protect full panels.
  • The longevity and durability of a coating is severely dependent on how it is maintained.
  • Air dry whenever possible. The less physical contact the better.

Washing:
  • Automatic Touch:
    • Use these if you hate your car and want the 30 lbs of mud and grime from the truck in front of you to slap against your clear coat for 5 minutes.
  • Automatic Touch-less:
    • A better solution to touch washes, if you must. But because these washes cannot use friction to remove dirt, instead to be effective most of them use harsher chemicals. These chemicals are good at one thing: stripping waxes and sealants.
  • Hand Wash:
    • The only correct way to wash. Proper hand washes use a 3 bucket system: 1 bucket for the paint, 1 bucket for the wheels, and 1 rinse bucket. All with grit guards. Your wheels are the most contaminated part of your vehicle - always wash them before the rest of the vehicle. Rule of thumb is top to bottom after the wheels.
      • The order of march for a proper maintenance wash is as follows: Rinse -> Foam -> Rinse -> Hand Wash -> Rinse -> Air Dry

Decontamination
  • Mechanical
    • Clay: Removes imbedded contaminants from the paint. Removing these contaminants leaves the paint smooth and appearing "glossier". A lot of detailers will include a clay decontamination in their basic wash services because of the improvements in gloss and feel but make no mistake - this will mare your paint. They will tell you it doesn't, but I promise you it does. Claying is a necessary evil so afterwards, if you want a defect-free finish, paint correction will be required after performing any kind mechanical decontamination.
  • Chemical
    • De-Iron: This is a process performed during washing to safely remove imbedded iron contaminants. All brand new vehicles need a chemical decon. A chemical decon should also be performed annually, even on vehicles that are coated.

Paint Protection:
  • Paint Protection Film:
    • AKA "Clear Bras" have evolved to not only offer the most protection to impact, but also offer outstanding UV protection. Most have self-healing and hydrophobic properties as well. My general rule of thumb with PPF is: Never do a partial panel, IMO this defeats the purpose of PPF entirely. The whole point is to protect the panel from not only rock damage, but also UV damage to avoid having to do a re-paint. So what's the point of protecting a partial panel when every inch that's unprotected is susceptible to damage that would ultimately require the repaint?
  • Vinyl:
    • Vinyl wraps are meant to be temporary (1-2 years) and are generally used for color changes or adding a design element to the outside of a vehicle. Vinyl is much thinner than PPF so there is virtually no impact protection. They do offer paint protection in terms of UV, contaminant and prevention of swirl marks. Vinyl also does not have self healing or hydrophobic capabilities.
  • Sealants:
    • You know that stuff that the dealership's finance department sold you when you sat down with them to buy your car? The stuff that was in the ballpark of $1500, developed by a company you've never heard of, that they said will protect your paint for several years? I have bad news for you: They lied to you, you overpaid, and it's probably gone by now. They sold you a sealant which is a form of paint protection that applies like wax, cost about as much as wax, and last about 6-8 months in most climates. Most sealants have a lot of "fillers" in them as well, which help disguise marring. Some sealants can be applied to both paint and plastic. They offer UV protection, gloss enhancement and the good ones have hydrophobic capabilities.
  • Wax:
    • Wax is wax. Makes your paint smooth, adds a deeper tone, and provides some UV protection. Die hards still use it but in my opinion wax is obsolete in the wake of ceramic coatings and sealants. Even sealants are becoming obsolete in the wake of some of new ceramic coatings that apply just as easy in the same amount of time.
  • Ceramic Coatings:
    • Durability of ceramic coatings is measured by years, not months. UV protection, hydrophobicity, and gloss enhancement are unparalleled. They can be applied to everything: paint, PPF, vinyl, exterior and interior plastics, textiles, windows & windshields, tires, wheels, calipers and leathers. I've even coated my shower doors so I don't have to squeegee as much. Application difficulty ranges and air temperature and humidity generally need consideration. Advanced coatings may require lamp curing, but all coatings require some form of paint polishing before application. Feynlab is one of the very elite few whom offer self-healing coatings.
      • The durability of a coating is greatly dependent on how it is maintained.
      • The longevity of a coating is generally overhyped.
      • Ceramic coatings are not as impacted by harsher chemicals used by automatic washes.
      • Ceramic coatings significantly ease the washing and drying procedure, significantly reducing the chance of marring.

Interior Cleaning
  • Any all purpose interior cleaner (APC) from a legitimate car care company will be safe to use on your car. When used normally, it is all safe on virtually every panel and every surface inside your vehicle. Grab yourself your favorite smelling APC, a soft brush and a soft towel and have at it (responsibly). I've used Meguiars' Ultimate Quik Interior Detailer on everything from an Outback to an Aventador. I prefer Feynlab's interior cleaner for the smell and the performance I get out of it when agitating with a brush.
    • Pet hair removal
      • In my experience, hair stones have been the most effective on carpets and cloth seats. I generally vacuum first, then use the stone to gather hair into a pile and then vacuum again. Just be careful to around plastics and softer cloth so you don't scratch anything.
    • Leather Care
      • Unless you drive a wicked high end car like a Ferrari, your leather is not leather per say. It's more of a leather derivative that has been painted. That being said, you don't necessarily have to use a leather conditioner or cleaner. Water does fine, the vitamins in baby wipes also do a good job preserving "leather" seats. But leather conditioners do smell nice, tend to leave a sheen that make leathers look and feel nice. Same thing here though, find something you like the smell of and use it responsibly.
    • Steam
      • Steam cleaning works wonders for tight nooks and crannies. Entry level steamers are pretty cheap and perform great. Steam cleaning can be dangerous if done improperly though. Be mindful of the heat. I have seen professionals and DIYers alike destroy electronics, melt plastics, burn leather, etc. A major benefit with steam cleaning is its disinfectant capabilities and ability to break up imbedded grime. Steam can also be used to clean exterior pieces and suspension systems. Never use steam on headliners.

Paint Correction:
  • Dual Action Polishers
    • DA (Dual Action) Polishers can be multi-functional tools depending on what type of compound and pad you are using. Pads come in foam, microfiber and wool. Soft foam pads are generally used for spreading wax, sealants and finish polishing. Stepping up the pad and compound abrasiveness steps up the amount of "cut" or paint correction. Paint correction is the process of actually removing your paints clear coat to level out and "remove" scratches. Generally, after a watching a youtube video, a DIYer can use a DA polisher without harming their paint or creating holograms.
  • Rotary Polishers
    • Rotaries require training to be used safely. When improperly used they will easily create holograms and even burn through your paint. Unless you're a pro - don't worry about them.

What I use:
  • I use the Feynlab for everything from interior APC to polishing compounds. Feynlab is a US company built by the who's who in the industry as a company by themselves, for themselves. Everything Feynlab develops is made in house - down to the very barrels they keep their products in. For everything else they do not currently offer I use:
    • Gyeon Leather for leather coating
    • Gyeon Iron for chemical decontamination
    • Meguiars Mild clay bars
    • Rupes polishing pads

Links:
Logo_retina.png
 
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Wow, this thread is ridiculously informative! I’m bookmarking it for later this month when we turn our hoses back on (from winter) and I plan to detail my truck for the second time since I’ve owned it. Thank you!
 
You inspired me. First car wash in ages. Not a detail, but it’s something.

F226C1AF-F184-4CE1-9D10-F5A615062711.jpeg
 
What should someone expect to pay for various levels of cleaning from a "professional" detailer? Wondering if this is worth it for a 2016 Honda Civic 4dr...

EXTERIOR
  • - Foam Bath hand wash using a ph neutral soap
  • - Paint decontamination with clay bar, clay mitt or paint cleansers depending on the severity of contamination
  • - 1 step machine polish to restore gloss and remove 60% of imperfections & swirl marks
  • - Hand applied premium hybrid sealant wax applied to give the paint a high gloss, lasts 3 months
  • - Wheels cleaned including the barrels they are also decontaminated including tar removal
  • - Tires dressed with a professional quality long lasting dressing
  • - Exterior vinyl and plastics dressed and protected
  • - Glass cleaned inside and out
  • - Door jams cleaned
INTERIOR

  • - Complete interior vacuum
  • - All plastics cleaned, using a steam cleaner and proper professional chemicals to deep clean and disinfect
  • - Carpets deep cleaned, shampooed using hot water extraction to remove stains
  • - Headliner cleaned to remove stains if necessary
  • - Interior glass cleaned
  • - All plastics dressed with uv protectant and dust repellant
  • - Leather cleaned & conditioned
  • - Carpets and fabric protected with fabric guard similar to scotch guard
  • - Interior vents cleaned using a steam cleaner and or brushes and compressed air to remove bacteria and remove odors
 
What should someone expect to pay for various levels of cleaning from a "professional" detailer? Wondering if this is worth it for a 2016 Honda Civic 4dr...

EXTERIOR
  • - Foam Bath hand wash using a ph neutral soap
  • - Paint decontamination with clay bar, clay mitt or paint cleansers depending on the severity of contamination
  • - 1 step machine polish to restore gloss and remove 60% of imperfections & swirl marks
  • - Hand applied premium hybrid sealant wax applied to give the paint a high gloss, lasts 3 months
  • - Wheels cleaned including the barrels they are also decontaminated including tar removal
  • - Tires dressed with a professional quality long lasting dressing
  • - Exterior vinyl and plastics dressed and protected
  • - Glass cleaned inside and out
  • - Door jams cleaned
INTERIOR

  • - Complete interior vacuum
  • - All plastics cleaned, using a steam cleaner and proper professional chemicals to deep clean and disinfect
  • - Carpets deep cleaned, shampooed using hot water extraction to remove stains
  • - Headliner cleaned to remove stains if necessary
  • - Interior glass cleaned
  • - All plastics dressed with uv protectant and dust repellant
  • - Leather cleaned & conditioned
  • - Carpets and fabric protected with fabric guard similar to scotch guard
  • - Interior vents cleaned using a steam cleaner and or brushes and compressed air to remove bacteria and remove odors

I price my service based on time needed to complete them. Most detailers do the same. I calculate $50 an hour which after my business overhead and supplies, pays me about $30 an hour. So if you're asking what I would charge for these services: We're looking at about 10 hours on the exterior and at least 12 hours on the interior, so $1100 bucks. Anywhere between $800-$1200 for the above is fair.

Although, If this is a real quote, I see some red flags...
  • I have no idea what a "premium hybrid sealant wax" is. Sounds like some fake crap Chemical Guys would put on the market.
  • For the amount of time and money that is required to do a 1 step paint correction and "hand apply" a sealant/wax, a good detailer would urge you to upgrade to an entry level ceramic coating. They take about the same time to install and the overhead is maybe $30 more.
  • I personally wouldn't use a tar remover to clean wheels. Tar removers are for tar. I use a dedicated wheel cleaner and a de-ironizer to clean wheels.
 
I'd love to do it myself, it's always interested me but I lack the knowledge and tools to do it. Like, I have a orbital from harbor freight but nothing else lol I've also never used it.
 
I'd love to do it myself, it's always interested me but I lack the knowledge and tools to do it. Like, I have a orbital from harbor freight but nothing else lol I've also never used it.

Harbor Freight DA is perfect. It's not until you're spending 6+ hours over a machine day in and day out that you'll benefit from a high end polisher.

Watch this video once or twice. You'll do just fine!

Original link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3t7jULUCpc
 
Harbor Freight DA is perfect. It's not until you're spending 6+ hours over a machine day in and day out that you'll benefit from a high end polisher.

Watch this video once or twice. You'll do just fine!

Original link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3t7jULUCpc

Thanks! I'd love to learn more and give it a try... sounds like a great weekend beer drinking project. My wifes car is white and I have cement grey... wonder how hard it'd be to fuck them up.
 
Phenomenal thread. I've always wanted to know more about what I can and cannot do detailing wise, but never really knew where to start. The info here is that really good starting point. Guess I need to do a bit more research as I'd love to prolong the inevitable death of my paint.
 
Where do you buy your supplies, any recommendations for equipment?

I buy everything directly from Feynlab. Everything that Feynlab does not make I purchase from Esoteric Car Care and Detail-Division. Detail-Division has provided me the best customer service I have ever seen from a company, ever. Autogeek and Detailed Image are the most popular online stores.

I use Rupes for all of my polishing machines. I have every one they sell. Flex makes great stuff too. But for a weekender, a porter cable will do just fine. Makita makes a sweet polisher that is both DA and gear driven DA.

My pressure washer is state of the art. I use the Kranzle K1322TS which was designed by Matt Mooreman at Obsessed Garage. He has done extensive research on more cost effective portable pressure washers and posted his reviews on his youtube channel and sells many of them at obseesedgarage.com.

This is my pressure washing setup:
https://www.obsessedgarage.com/coll...tom-install-kranzle-pressure-washing-solution

I use The Rag Company for all of my towels.


Phenomenal thread. I've always wanted to know more about what I can and cannot do detailing wise, but never really knew where to start. The info here is that really good starting point. Guess I need to do a bit more research as I'd love to prolong the inevitable death of my paint.

Thanks mate!
 
Where do you buy your supplies, any recommendations for equipment?

Also, stay away from "The Chemical Guys". Their products are mediocre, they are pure marketing, just like CeramicPro.
I prefer to stay away from companies that try to take advantage of their customers by contributing to the already convoluted, misperception of "ceramic" products.
 
I buy everything directly from Feynlab. Everything that Feynlab does not make I purchase from Esoteric Car Care and Detail-Division. Detail-Division has provided me the best customer service I have ever seen from a company, ever. Autogeek and Detailed Image are the most popular online stores.

I use Rupes for all of my polishing machines. I have every one they sell. Flex makes great stuff too. But for a weekender, a porter cable will do just fine. Makita makes a sweet polisher that is both DA and gear driven DA.

My pressure washer is state of the art. I use the Kranzle K1322TS which was designed by Matt Mooreman at Obsessed Garage. He has done extensive research on more cost effective portable pressure washers and posted his reviews on his youtube channel and sells many of them at obseesedgarage.com.

This is my pressure washing setup:
https://www.obsessedgarage.com/coll...tom-install-kranzle-pressure-washing-solution

I use The Rag Company for all of my towels.




Thanks mate!

How come more detailers don't use something similar to the Milwaukee Variable Speed Palm Orbital that's battery powered so it's cordless?
 
How come more detailers don't use something similar to the Milwaukee Variable Speed Palm Orbital that's battery powered so it's cordless?

Because it's just a hand held machine. Day in and day out with that thing would kill your body, and your paint correction results will likely suffer. Those little hand guys are great for spreading wax and sealant but not for performing paint correction.

Detailers will use the Flex XFE15, Flex PE 150 and the Rupes Nano Ibrid if they need cordless.
 
How come more detailers don't use something similar to the Milwaukee Variable Speed Palm Orbital that's battery powered so it's cordless?

The best bang for your buck as far as DA polishers are concerned is the Porter Cable. This machine literally started the DA polishing revolution when someone decided to use it on car paint. It was originally a sander. Every machine is basically a variation of the original Porter Cable.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002654I46/?tag=tacoma3g-20

Here's the Griots, same thing, more comfy.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002654I46/?tag=tacoma3g-20

I'd also recommend the TorqX but it's made by Chemical Guys and I hate Chemical Guys.

https://www.chemicalguys.com/torqx-random-orbital-polisher/BUF503.html
 
Gotcha, I'm trying to put together a "beginner" kit of some sort with some pads, foam gun, exterior and interior cleaners, a few interior brushes, buckets etc.
 
Gotcha, I'm trying to put together a "beginner" kit of some sort with some pads, foam gun, exterior and interior cleaners, a few interior brushes, buckets etc.

Let me help you out.

Equipment:

Pressure washer, wand, gun, hose & foam cannon:
https://www.obsessedgarage.com/coll...s/pressure-washer-package?variant=43372116419

Towel starter kit:
https://www.obsessedgarage.com/coll...te-microfiber-solution?variant=12306570248284

Dope, over the top bucket package with bucket dollies and grit guards:
https://www.obsessedgarage.com/collections/detailing-all/products/complete-bucket-package

DA Polisher:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/griots-garage-3rd-gen-polisher.html#.XnKuX5NKjOQ

Choose your pads:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/rupes-6-inch-foam-pads-6.html#.XnKukZNKjOQ

Get all 3 polishing compounds (Heavy, Medium, Final)
https://www.feynlab.com/product-category/automotive/automotive-preparation/

Pick your protection (definitely do the tire stuff)
https://www.feynlab.com/product-category/automotive/automotive-protection/

Get 1 of each:
https://www.feynlab.com/product-category/automotive/automotive-maintenance/

Glass cleaner:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/gyeon-glass-cleaner-500.html#.XnKu3ZNKjOQ

Iron remover:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/gyeon-q2m-iron-500.html#.XnKu0ZNKjOQ

Clay:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/meguiars-professional-detailing-clay-.html#.XnKvNZNKjOQ

Protein based contaminant remover:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/gyeon-q2m-bug-grime.html#.XnKu55NKjOQ

Chemical based contaminant remover:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/gyeon-q2m-tar.html#.XnKu65NKjOQ

Water spot remover:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/gyeon-q2m-water-spot.html#.XnKu6ZNKjOQ

Brushes:
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/ultimate-interior-brush-kit.html#.XnKwGZNKjOQ
 
Wanted to share a little of what I've been working on for a client of mine, if anyone cares. I think it's pretty cool since these new C8 corvettes are rare for now. This one is the only one in our area out here. They're pretty cool and drive great, and for under 80k for a mid-engine performance vehicle they are untouchable. I'd still rather have the C7 Z06 though, I think they look better.

This thing is getting a full ceramic package which includes the 2 layers on the leathers, 2 layers on the carpets, windows and windshield, 2 layers of wheels & calipers, 3 layers of tires, 2 layers of plastics (which there is hardly any) and two layers of paint.

EN7%VHkWTtOWi5J6rXAA7Q.jpgKdbRI1jkSP2VVJXZZk+7hA.jpgMVjI9Ko9Q0ajwcsXy88s5Q.jpgpGOijjLPQtyh3oxcO19K%Q.jpgnriXTszgQZWA302RZKsqBA.jpg

Iron Decontamination.
8pcmahM0QEW7YR5aiFJgdg.jpgxpuR0A62Royu6ANIXZLmsg.jpgG2qgNnBbTiCabdq4SIMCNA.jpgMWRQVKdHQDinB3U8ez39+g.jpg4BSQ3BHTSjqHgf0AvRFx7A.jpgAP15jxWRSJS9vAFGaFRUIA.jpg

Foam bath. My favorite part of washing.
aYSysa7QTd2orjhap58Kwg.jpgUfORMht0RManSeTCPHLeYA.jpgPPQpczLUThaFxZv1UrPf5w.jpgXmrDl3yuROe94pZ3ySTidQ.jpg

Ceramic coated tires, wheels & calipers, and ceramic dwelling on the windshield.
8aTH0plLSzuiISIXZ7ZQxw.jpgztK47dKfRLqPnYYhC1O17w.jpg

Today I'll be polishing the paint and laying down paint ceramic.
 

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I'm more impressed with the garage with that amount of space and being able to spray clean inside it... I assume there's some sort of drain in there? Very sweet setup, regardless. Detail work and it's progress is oddly-satisfying for me. haha.
 
I'm more impressed with the garage with that amount of space and being able to spray clean inside it... I assume there's some sort of drain in there? Very sweet setup, regardless. Detail work and it's progress is oddly-satisfying for me. haha.

Yeah it's nice to have the space to do everything. The floors are swisstrax and have channels underneath them to drain. Garage naturally slopes toward the driveway where there are 3 drain holes in front of each garage-door.
 
Awesome thread!

I have a few questions to add:

1) Does the pet hair stone mess up/rip out the carpet at all?\
2) Do you have any recommendation for a vacuum? I use my Shark pet vacuum but it definitely doesn't cut it.
3) Do you use compressed air at all?
 
Awesome thread!

I have a few questions to add:

1) Does the pet hair stone mess up/rip out the carpet at all?\
2) Do you have any recommendation for a vacuum? I use my Shark pet vacuum but it definitely doesn't cut it.
3) Do you use compressed air at all?

1) The pet hair stone will pull up carpet, like an agressive lint roller. It will not rip the carpet or destroy it so long as you're using it responsibly. I've never had an issue using them.

2) I use the Vacmaster Beast 5 Gal. vacuum. It has amazing water-lift capabilities and comes with a "detailers" attachment kit. This video will help you make the decision based on your needs:
Original link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipNuoATbcqM


3: I use the Bigboi car dryer linked below. It's pricey but they have a smaller version. I rarely need to use compressed air beyond that, but when I do it's usually on suspension and brake components. Compressed air can actually cut your paint, or chip away at already failing paint if you're not careful.
https://www.esotericcarcare.com/bigboi-blowr-pro-car-dryer/
 
Awesome thread! Working on a starter package, obsessed garage I discovered some time ago, good stuff!

Working through your recommendations pin-stripping can be removed, do you do anything specific to correct pin-stripping from tight trails? Also I am slowly getting the truck done in Ultra Line-X covering, any feedback on maintaining this product for longevity?

Thank you in advance for any feedback!
 
Awesome thread! Working on a starter package, obsessed garage I discovered some time ago, good stuff!

Working through your recommendations pin-stripping can be removed, do you do anything specific to correct pin-stripping from tight trails? Also I am slowly getting the truck done in Ultra Line-X covering, any feedback on maintaining this product for longevity?

Thank you in advance for any feedback!

I'm assuming by "tight trails" your referring to heavy pin-stripping. Pin-stripping can be removed so long as its not through the clear coat but keep in mind removing imperfections is done by actually removing clear coat, so there's a limit to how many times you can do it, and how heavy you can cut.

As for the line-x, you could ceramic coat it. Would have to do it once a year I'm sure. I would check with the manufacturer and see what they recommend as well.
 
For any and all that have vinyl on their rigs, especially roof wraps: Check on it every now and then and make sure it’s not failing. Yesterday I spent the better part of 6 hours with a steamer, a heat gun and a pack of plastic razor blades trying to get the hood vinyl off this Ford Raptor. It was impossible to remove without damaging the paint. So unfortunately this will also require some pretty heavy compounding. Had this good graphic been removed when it started to crack it would have come off much easier. Had it been ceramic coated, it probably wouldn’t have failed to begin with!

9358522C-0510-422D-878D-AAB9C20B9322.jpeg
 
For any and all that have vinyl on their rigs, especially roof wraps: Check on it every now and then and make sure it’s not failing. Yesterday I spent the better part of 6 hours with a steamer, a heat gun and a pack of plastic razor blades trying to get the hood vinyl off this Ford Raptor. It was impossible to remove without damaging the paint. So unfortunately this will also require some pretty heavy compounding. Had this good graphic been removed when it started to crack it would have come off much easier. Had it been ceramic coated, it probably wouldn’t have failed to begin with!

9358522C-0510-422D-878D-AAB9C20B9322.jpeg

Wow. That sucks for that guy.
 
How would you recommend bringing back a carbon fiber hood that has clouded up?
I used a cheap orbital buffer and rubbing compound and it came out pretty good, but you can still kind of see some areas that need a little more work.
 
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